One True Religion
Yesterday I got suckered into an argument; one of those you can't win. It was with "those people". The ones who think their religion, or their particular set of beliefs, is the correct one and the only one.
It started simple enough and wasn't supposed to devolve into what it did. One of my Disney groups asked the question of what did we think about the news that there's a gay character in the new Beauty and the Beast. There was some debate about whether it was integral to the story or not. I pointed out that it's not like LeFou is going to whip his dick out and start trying to bang Gaston, most likely he was just that he was going to express unrequited love for the man (although I was a little more polite than that).
The group admin even said if the woman had just said "it goes against my religious beliefs. I won't seeing it or taking my children" that would have ended the discussion. She's stating how it affects her, and she has every right to do something or not do something based on her own set of beliefs. The problem is, people like this often think their set of beliefs is the "correct" one and they have the right to force other people to live by their set of standards. That was where I got sucked in.
Over and over I said it was fine for her to believe what she wanted but the rest of society wasn't going to be changed to fit her particular set of beliefs. The argument "read your Bible" or "it's the word of God". I would respond lots of people read the Bible and come away with something different. My own denomination has a different perspective on this than you do. We have gay and lesbian pastors and parishoners, many who are in committed relationships. I asked why the Roman Catholic church has 7 sacraments while Protestants have 2. She responded that was "man made doctrine." Funny how anything you don't like is "man-made doctrine" while what you agree with is "the word of God."
I brought up that many of the old laws were put there for health reasons over issues that have been solved today - such as sanitary conditions, bacteria, and food handling. The Bible spells out how to be Kosher. I don't know any Christians who keep a kosher kitchen. I know some Jewish people who still do and many who don't. Either way, it's their right to do what they want for themselves. They don't go around telling the rest of the world we need to maintain a kosher environment because the Bible says so.
And again, "that was different."
The person I was discussing this with and another were eventually banned. Ironically enough, the other person was a woman who claimed to be a Pastor and when I pointed out that the Bible says women should be silent in church therefore under her own reasoning her preaching was invalid, again "that was different."
No matter how many times I stated over and over again that different denominations see things differently, they couldn't grasp that. In their heads, they had it right because "the Bible said so" no matter how many times it was pointed out that other people read THE SAME DAMN THING and came away with something else. When the original debater brought out an argument about losing a child and praying and feeling a certain way, I chimed in that I too lost a beautiful daughter and I prayed and had conversations with God and came away with something quite different than what she did. Their answer was that I somehow wasn't getting it right and I needed to "pray harder."
It wasn't the forum for it, but when they said that eternal life is only possible through Jesus Christ, I wanted to ask if they were throwing all of the Native Americans in this country who lived at a time before they knew about Jesus into hell, or natives to any area. I mean, it seems a little ridiculous to me that a "loving God" would create people who don't even know about Jesus and then say "you're all going to hell because you don't love him." I'll be the first to admit, I don't understand everything about God, and that's okay.
If God and the universe is in the "one true faith" of these people I had this ridiculous debate with yesterday, I'm okay with being on the outside looking in. It's not at all inviting to me. Honestly, though, I think it has to do with their own insecurities as humans. They can't admit it's a belief versus a fact. They have to know they've got all their i's dotted and t's crossed so they'll be going to heaven. They can't admit what I did further up - that I don't know or understand everything I have to about God.
You're never going to reach these people or change their minds on anything. Their thought process just doesn't allow for it. The problem is they think they have a right to impose these beliefs on everyone else because it is genuinely the only way to think. To them, they are oppressed when the rest of society is not forced to live according to their beliefs. It's okay to have a President who is immoral, as long as he's giving lip-service to creating a society that is based on their set of beliefs.
That is the point where I stop feeling sorry for them.
And that was what I saw in this discussion: the intolerance that there was any other set of beliefs to live by other than their own.
It started simple enough and wasn't supposed to devolve into what it did. One of my Disney groups asked the question of what did we think about the news that there's a gay character in the new Beauty and the Beast. There was some debate about whether it was integral to the story or not. I pointed out that it's not like LeFou is going to whip his dick out and start trying to bang Gaston, most likely he was just that he was going to express unrequited love for the man (although I was a little more polite than that).
The group admin even said if the woman had just said "it goes against my religious beliefs. I won't seeing it or taking my children" that would have ended the discussion. She's stating how it affects her, and she has every right to do something or not do something based on her own set of beliefs. The problem is, people like this often think their set of beliefs is the "correct" one and they have the right to force other people to live by their set of standards. That was where I got sucked in.
Over and over I said it was fine for her to believe what she wanted but the rest of society wasn't going to be changed to fit her particular set of beliefs. The argument "read your Bible" or "it's the word of God". I would respond lots of people read the Bible and come away with something different. My own denomination has a different perspective on this than you do. We have gay and lesbian pastors and parishoners, many who are in committed relationships. I asked why the Roman Catholic church has 7 sacraments while Protestants have 2. She responded that was "man made doctrine." Funny how anything you don't like is "man-made doctrine" while what you agree with is "the word of God."
I brought up that many of the old laws were put there for health reasons over issues that have been solved today - such as sanitary conditions, bacteria, and food handling. The Bible spells out how to be Kosher. I don't know any Christians who keep a kosher kitchen. I know some Jewish people who still do and many who don't. Either way, it's their right to do what they want for themselves. They don't go around telling the rest of the world we need to maintain a kosher environment because the Bible says so.
And again, "that was different."
The person I was discussing this with and another were eventually banned. Ironically enough, the other person was a woman who claimed to be a Pastor and when I pointed out that the Bible says women should be silent in church therefore under her own reasoning her preaching was invalid, again "that was different."
No matter how many times I stated over and over again that different denominations see things differently, they couldn't grasp that. In their heads, they had it right because "the Bible said so" no matter how many times it was pointed out that other people read THE SAME DAMN THING and came away with something else. When the original debater brought out an argument about losing a child and praying and feeling a certain way, I chimed in that I too lost a beautiful daughter and I prayed and had conversations with God and came away with something quite different than what she did. Their answer was that I somehow wasn't getting it right and I needed to "pray harder."
It wasn't the forum for it, but when they said that eternal life is only possible through Jesus Christ, I wanted to ask if they were throwing all of the Native Americans in this country who lived at a time before they knew about Jesus into hell, or natives to any area. I mean, it seems a little ridiculous to me that a "loving God" would create people who don't even know about Jesus and then say "you're all going to hell because you don't love him." I'll be the first to admit, I don't understand everything about God, and that's okay.
If God and the universe is in the "one true faith" of these people I had this ridiculous debate with yesterday, I'm okay with being on the outside looking in. It's not at all inviting to me. Honestly, though, I think it has to do with their own insecurities as humans. They can't admit it's a belief versus a fact. They have to know they've got all their i's dotted and t's crossed so they'll be going to heaven. They can't admit what I did further up - that I don't know or understand everything I have to about God.
You're never going to reach these people or change their minds on anything. Their thought process just doesn't allow for it. The problem is they think they have a right to impose these beliefs on everyone else because it is genuinely the only way to think. To them, they are oppressed when the rest of society is not forced to live according to their beliefs. It's okay to have a President who is immoral, as long as he's giving lip-service to creating a society that is based on their set of beliefs.
That is the point where I stop feeling sorry for them.
And that was what I saw in this discussion: the intolerance that there was any other set of beliefs to live by other than their own.
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